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MIDI Gate Stuck
#1
Hi guys,

I have a Nerdseq with midi io. 

I connect my Digitakt directly to sequence the 6 cv trig channels. This works ok sometimes, but very often the gate will get stuck open. When I put the Nerdseq clock into midi Slave mode, the gates never switch off. So from the first note I cannot turn them off and end up having to power cycle to stop the gate. This is playing monophonically.

I can’t sequence via midi and have a synced clock at the same time. I have an Intellijel uMidi, which does not display this issue using the same setup. I really need to get this to work properly, it is particularly frustrating as I cannot sequence anything.

Can anyone help with this? Firmware is 1.16, the latest release.

Thanks,
Paul
Reply
#2
(09-17-2018, 10:14 PM)pmarchitect Wrote: Hi guys,

I have a Nerdseq with midi io. 

I connect my Digitakt directly to sequence the 6 cv trig channels. This works ok sometimes, but very often the gate will get stuck open. When I put the Nerdseq clock into midi Slave mode, the gates never switch off. So from the first note I cannot turn them off and end up having to power cycle to stop the gate. This is playing monophonically.

I can’t sequence via midi and have a synced clock at the same time. I have an Intellijel uMidi, which does not display this issue using the same setup. I really need to get this to work properly, it is particularly frustrating as I cannot sequence anything.

Can anyone help with this? Firmware is 1.16, the latest release.

Thanks,
Paul

Hey Paul,

i don't have the Digitakt to test your issues. However i recently got the Digitone and maybe i can reproduce it with that, too. But i got to learn first how to sequence midi with it, which might take a while as i am like 120% busy for the next 2 weeks.

However, lets clarify some things. First, it would be a shame to use the NerdSEQ only as a Midi-CV converter. (A quite expensive one as well Wink )
Full power comes by it's own sequencing, something the digitakt can never archieve with midi.

Lets check your setup:
You sequence 6 independent channels with Midi-Notes, all independent and monophonic?
Are you sure you send Note-On and always Note-Off before a new Note-On with the digitakt (i don't know how deep the midi implementation is, so sorry if these are silly questions)?
Do you get also problems of you are only sequencing only 1 channel...2 channels...and so on?
Is it possible for you to record the midi stream with a tool like Midi-Ox or another Midi tool, so i could analyse the data?

The Intellijel uMidi has only 1 channel, so it's not possible to sequence 6 channels at the same time. There is a big difference as it only listens to 1 Midi channel. The NerdSEQ scans all Midi channels and routes them to the tracks and samples currently. ( The Midi implementation will get a major update in the future with flexible midi mapping functions) So i wouldn't consider that as a comparison.

So let me know so we can try to get to the problem and solve it if needed.

Cheers
Thomas
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
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#3
Hi Thomas,

Firstly thanks for your prompt response. I agree with your comments about using it as just a midi to cv converter. My planned workflow is to use the Digitakt (or Digitone) for composing core melodies, record them into the Nerdseq, and then add more complexity using the power of the Nerdseq. Although I like trackers I don’t find them helpful for finding core melodies personally.

Yes the midi is all monophonic and independent. The gate will get stuck on immediately using one channel if the clock is set to midi slave. This is the same whether using the Digitakt or Digitone. It also gets stuck open without the Nerdseq clock in midi slave mode but might take anywhere from 5 seconds to 5 minutes to happen, but it always does. I checked the Midi stream and there's really nothing to see:

Digitakt stream (looks the same using Digitone)

12:24:44.846 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:44.866 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:44.887 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:44.908 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:44.929 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:44.949 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:44.970 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:44.991 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.012 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.033 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.043 From Digitakt in 1 Note On 2 C5 100
12:24:45.053 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.075 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.095 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.116 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.137 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.152 From Digitakt in 1 Note Off 2 C5 0 <Nerdseq gate now stuck open
12:24:45.158 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.179 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.199 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.220 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.241 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.262 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.283 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.303 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
12:24:45.325 From Digitakt in 1 Clock

I only used the uMidi as an example, as I think the issue I’m having is probably with the midi implementation of the Nerdseq, I understand they are not comparable units. With the Digitone if you press Midi, press Record for step sequencing and then enter trigs on keys 1-16, then press play. For live recording using the Digitione's keyboard, hold Record and press Play, then play the Digitone's 'keyboard'.

I hope this information was of use, please let me know what I can do if you need anything else, or what I can try to resolve this issue.

Thanks,
Paul
Reply
#4
OK thanks for the info. It looks like (not sure) that the digitakt uses the Note on command to make note off. Shouldn't be a problem as the NerdSEQ supports both and both are regular.
I got to check with the digitone then. More important is the real midi-stream for me, not the translated one. So when i can reproduce it then i can analyse whats happening.
Please be a bit patient. I will try to analyse it as soon as possible. And of course, i will solve the problem. Until now some people make use of the Midi -> CV channels and they don't have problems.

To be continued....
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
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#5
OK thanks. Just to let you know, MIDI channels 2 & 4 are the most problematic, these two get stuck instantly with the first note. The other channels it takes longer. I have no explanation for this at all. Very odd.

Pressing stop/play/stop a couple of times on the Digitakt will often stop the stuck gates, but not always.

EDIT: I just tried using the Digitone as master clock and MIDI note send, again it's MIDI channels 2 & 4 which exhibit the issue most.

EDIT 2: I did a soft reset on the Nerdseq, and channels 2 & 4 were working properly for about 30 seconds of playing. Then the gates stuck again. After stopping the gates by stopping and starting the Digitakt sequencer, the gates now get stuck on at first note on again.

EDIT 3: I just tried sequencing all midi tracks monophonic after another soft reset. After a few seconds all gates on all channels were stuck on. After stopping gates via Digitakt stop/start/stop, all channels gates will be stuck on from first note on from Digitakt, so it's all channels. There is nothing to see in the midi stream, just on offs as they should be.
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#6
I had a similar issue and it turned out to be the MIDI interface. Since sorting that out, all is fine now.
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#7
OK. I just took some minutes off to check the problem and i can reproduce it.

But it is actually different than i expected and it needs further research on the midi stream.
First of all i can sequence 4 channels Midi including Mod wheel changes with many notes without any issue. (more than 200 Bpm, already 20 minutes long including sequencing another track, + midi slave mode synchronised).

The problems begin at the point i press the stop button on the digitone. All notes that were playing stay ON. (thats most probably what you found out that tracks 2+4 were most affected...probably the most notes in your sequence)
Tracks which weren't playing a note are fine. Tracks which played a note are 'out of sync'. I assume when pressing stop, the channels which notes played didn't get a proper Note-Off command. And without a note-off command the NerdSEQ is counting the notes wrong (because for the NerdSEQ the note is still being pressed...counting is needed in case of polyphonic playing, so all notes can be released..and the sequencer clock doesn't matter here at all and is never an indicator for Midi-Notes).

So i expect that the digitone uses another trick/thing to do a note-off. I don't think it just don't send these when pressing stop (and stopping notes) as this is essential.
I will check the midi stream to see whats being send on a stop asap. (Or you do maybe, thats might be faster ;-))

Also, what i think to do as well is to add a 'Reset Midi Notes---often called the PANIC button Smile ' function in the NerdSEQ so one can 'resynchronise' again in case of a hanging note.

btw: Now 42 minutes sequencing without a problem while writing this....I am sure it will be still in sync tomorrow without hanging notes if i would let it run ;-)  Also running the digitone on V1.02 which is kind of old as i just found out.
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
Reply
#8
(09-18-2018, 10:45 AM)XORadmin Wrote:
(09-17-2018, 10:14 PM)pmarchitect Wrote: Hi guys,

I have a Nerdseq with midi io. 

I connect my Digitakt directly to sequence the 6 cv trig channels. This works ok sometimes, but very often the gate will get stuck open. When I put the Nerdseq clock into midi Slave mode, the gates never switch off. So from the first note I cannot turn them off and end up having to power cycle to stop the gate. This is playing monophonically.

I can’t sequence via midi and have a synced clock at the same time. I have an Intellijel uMidi, which does not display this issue using the same setup. I really need to get this to work properly, it is particularly frustrating as I cannot sequence anything.

Can anyone help with this? Firmware is 1.16, the latest release.

Thanks,
Paul

Hey Paul,

i don't have the Digitakt to test your issues. However i recently got the Digitone and maybe i can reproduce it with that, too. But i got to learn first how to sequence midi with it, which might take a while as i am like 120% busy for the next 2 weeks.

However, lets clarify some things. First, it would be a shame to use the NerdSEQ only as a Midi-CV converter. (A quite expensive one as well Wink )
Full power comes by it's own sequencing, something the digitakt can never archieve with midi.

Lets check your setup:
You sequence 6 independent channels with Midi-Notes, all independent and monophonic?
Are you sure you send Note-On and always Note-Off before a new Note-On with the digitakt (i don't know how deep the midi implementation is, so sorry if these are silly questions)?
Do you get also problems of you are only sequencing only 1 channel...2 channels...and so on?
Is it possible for you to record the midi stream with a tool like Midi-Ox or another Midi tool, so i could analyse the data?

The Intellijel uMidi has only 1 channel, so it's not possible to sequence 6 channels at the same time. There is a big difference as it only listens to 1 Midi channel. The NerdSEQ scans all Midi channels and routes them to the tracks and samples currently. ( The Midi implementation will get a major update in the future with flexible midi mapping functions) So i wouldn't consider that as a comparison.

So let me know so we can try to get to the problem and solve it if needed.

Cheers
Thomas

(09-18-2018, 08:13 PM)XORadmin Wrote: OK. I just took some minutes off to check the problem and i can reproduce it.

But it is actually different than i expected and it needs further research on the midi stream.
First of all i can sequence 4 channels Midi including Mod wheel changes with many notes without any issue. (more than 200 Bpm, already 20 minutes long including sequencing another track, + midi slave mode synchronised).

The problems begin at the point i press the stop button on the digitone. All notes that were playing stay ON. (thats most probably what you found out that tracks 2+4 were most affected...probably the most notes in your sequence)
Tracks which weren't playing a note are fine. Tracks which played a note are 'out of sync'. I assume when pressing stop, the channels which notes played didn't get a proper Note-Off command. And without a note-off command the NerdSEQ is counting the notes wrong (because for the NerdSEQ the note is still being pressed...counting is needed in case of polyphonic playing, so all notes can be released..and the sequencer clock doesn't matter here at all and is never an indicator for Midi-Notes).

So i expect that the digitone uses another trick/thing to do a note-off. I don't think it just don't send these when pressing stop (and stopping notes) as this is essential.
I will check the midi stream to see whats being send on a stop asap. (Or you do maybe, thats might be faster ;-))

Also, what i think to do as well is to add a 'Reset Midi Notes---often called the PANIC button Smile ' function in the NerdSEQ so one can 'resynchronise' again in case of a hanging note.

btw: Now 42 minutes sequencing without a problem while writing this....I am sure it will be still in sync tomorrow without hanging notes if i would let it run ;-)
Thanks for looking into this. The main issue for me is that after gates have stuck open, and after I stop them using the Digitakt transport controls, any notes I play after that are immediately stuck on, regardless of receiving a midi note off signal. I might make a video to send you as it's hard to explain all this. But even playing the Digitone / Digitakt keyboard slowly I get stuck notes in seconds without touching any transport controls.

Cheers,
Paul
Reply
#9
(09-18-2018, 08:37 PM)pmarchitect Wrote:
(09-18-2018, 10:45 AM)XORadmin Wrote:
(09-17-2018, 10:14 PM)pmarchitect Wrote: Hi guys,

I have a Nerdseq with midi io. 

I connect my Digitakt directly to sequence the 6 cv trig channels. This works ok sometimes, but very often the gate will get stuck open. When I put the Nerdseq clock into midi Slave mode, the gates never switch off. So from the first note I cannot turn them off and end up having to power cycle to stop the gate. This is playing monophonically.

I can’t sequence via midi and have a synced clock at the same time. I have an Intellijel uMidi, which does not display this issue using the same setup. I really need to get this to work properly, it is particularly frustrating as I cannot sequence anything.

Can anyone help with this? Firmware is 1.16, the latest release.

Thanks,
Paul

Hey Paul,

i don't have the Digitakt to test your issues. However i recently got the Digitone and maybe i can reproduce it with that, too. But i got to learn first how to sequence midi with it, which might take a while as i am like 120% busy for the next 2 weeks.

However, lets clarify some things. First, it would be a shame to use the NerdSEQ only as a Midi-CV converter. (A quite expensive one as well Wink )
Full power comes by it's own sequencing, something the digitakt can never archieve with midi.

Lets check your setup:
You sequence 6 independent channels with Midi-Notes, all independent and monophonic?
Are you sure you send Note-On and always Note-Off before a new Note-On with the digitakt (i don't know how deep the midi implementation is, so sorry if these are silly questions)?
Do you get also problems of you are only sequencing only 1 channel...2 channels...and so on?
Is it possible for you to record the midi stream with a tool like Midi-Ox or another Midi tool, so i could analyse the data?

The Intellijel uMidi has only 1 channel, so it's not possible to sequence 6 channels at the same time. There is a big difference as it only listens to 1 Midi channel. The NerdSEQ scans all Midi channels and routes them to the tracks and samples currently. ( The Midi implementation will get a major update in the future with flexible midi mapping functions) So i wouldn't consider that as a comparison.

So let me know so we can try to get to the problem and solve it if needed.

Cheers
Thomas

(09-18-2018, 08:13 PM)XORadmin Wrote: OK. I just took some minutes off to check the problem and i can reproduce it.

But it is actually different than i expected and it needs further research on the midi stream.
First of all i can sequence 4 channels Midi including Mod wheel changes with many notes without any issue. (more than 200 Bpm, already 20 minutes long including sequencing another track, + midi slave mode synchronised).

The problems begin at the point i press the stop button on the digitone. All notes that were playing stay ON. (thats most probably what you found out that tracks 2+4 were most affected...probably the most notes in your sequence)
Tracks which weren't playing a note are fine. Tracks which played a note are 'out of sync'. I assume when pressing stop, the channels which notes played didn't get a proper Note-Off command. And without a note-off command the NerdSEQ is counting the notes wrong (because for the NerdSEQ the note is still being pressed...counting is needed in case of polyphonic playing, so all notes can be released..and the sequencer clock doesn't matter here at all and is never an indicator for Midi-Notes).

So i expect that the digitone uses another trick/thing to do a note-off. I don't think it just don't send these when pressing stop (and stopping notes) as this is essential.
I will check the midi stream to see whats being send on a stop asap. (Or you do maybe, thats might be faster ;-))

Also, what i think to do as well is to add a 'Reset Midi Notes---often called the PANIC button Smile ' function in the NerdSEQ so one can 'resynchronise' again in case of a hanging note.

btw: Now 42 minutes sequencing without a problem while writing this....I am sure it will be still in sync tomorrow without hanging notes if i would let it run ;-)
Thanks for looking into this. The main issue for me is that after gates have stuck open, and after I stop them using the Digitakt transport controls, any notes I play after that are immediately stuck on, regardless of receiving a midi note off signal. I might make a video to send you as it's hard to explain all this. But even playing the Digitone / Digitakt keyboard slowly I get stuck notes in seconds without touching any transport controls.

Cheers,
Paul

Yes no video needed. Totally reproducable here. The point you press stop, it's over. Hanging notes which can't be released anymore by the digitone and the NerdSEQ can't find it's way to normal as it misses some Note-Off commands. And as long as they are open, it will never fix the problem and the first next note that comes stays on.
I just need to know what the digitakt/tone is doing on a stop.
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
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#10
Hi,

I put a note on the Digitone with infinite length, started the sequencer, then pressed stop. It automatically sends a stop signal when you press stop - even if the sequenced midi event has not finished:

22:43:26.345 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.365 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.387 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.407 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.425 From Digitakt in 1 Start
22:43:26.426 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.447 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.468 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.489 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.509 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.531 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.551 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.572 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.593 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.614 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.635 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.655 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.676 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.697 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.718 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.739 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.759 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.781 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.801 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.822 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.843 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.864 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.885 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.905 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.926 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.947 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.968 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:26.989 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.009 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.031 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.051 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.072 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.093 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.114 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.135 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.155 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.176 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.197 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.218 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.239 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.259 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.281 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.301 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.322 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.343 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.364 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.385 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.405 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.426 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.427 From Digitakt in 1 Note On 1 C3 100            Infinite Trig Length
22:43:27.447 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.468 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.489 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.509 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.531 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.551 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.572 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.593 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.614 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.635 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.655 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.676 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.697 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.718 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.739 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.759 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.781 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.801 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.822 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.843 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.864 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.885 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.905 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.926 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.947 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.968 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:27.989 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.009 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.031 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.051 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.072 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.093 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.114 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.135 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.155 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.176 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.197 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.218 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.231 From Digitakt in 1 Note Off 1 C3 0                  Automatic note off sent when sequencer stopped
22:43:28.231 From Digitakt in 1 Stop
22:43:28.239 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.259 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.281 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.301 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
22:43:28.322 From Digitakt in 1 Clock
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