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Envelope Clicking
#1
Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?
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#2
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
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#3
(06-10-2022, 02:47 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.

Attached. Track 7 is the one in question.


Attached Files
.nrd   CLAV-15.NRD (Size: 513,09 KB / Downloads: 2)
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#4
(06-10-2022, 03:09 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:47 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.

Attached. Track 7 is the one in question.

Does it appear if you play only Pattern 21? I can't really hear what you mean. (Internal Clock)
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
Reply
#5
(06-10-2022, 03:20 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 03:09 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:47 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.

Attached. Track 7 is the one in question.

Does it appear if you play only Pattern 21? I can't really hear what you mean. (Internal Clock)

I'll make a video. Might be this evening but please don't worry as the weekend is upon us all and troubleshooting can wait.
Reply
#6
(06-10-2022, 03:45 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 03:20 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 03:09 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:47 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.

Attached. Track 7 is the one in question.

Does it appear if you play only Pattern 21? I can't really hear what you mean. (Internal Clock)

I'll make a video. Might be this evening but please don't worry as the weekend is upon us all and troubleshooting can wait.

Ok good!
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
Reply
#7
(06-10-2022, 03:09 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:47 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.

Attached. Track 7 is the one in question.

Out of curiosity I've downloaded and played it. First thing is I did was change the clock from External to Internal and set BPM to 125. I then played just Track 7 starting from row 00. I listened to each pattern for a few rounds and then moved the cursor to the next pattern and hit START to start it after the next round. I repeated this up to about Pattern 4C or 4E or so. No clicking sound.

I then stopped and moved back to row 00 and started the whole row and repeated the above procedure but always started the whole row instead of Track 7 only. Again no clicking sound.

I only listened to the output of Sample 7 (aka Track 7).

Two things are probably different from your setup:
- I'm on firmware V1.26RC6 (there is a change/bugfix w/r to CV16 envelopes that effectively reduces clicking - see patch notes; not sure this change is in effect for the envelopes of the main module as well)
- I use internal clock instead of some external clock source

You may try to test with internal clock (should be trivial).
Whether or not you try to use firmware V1.26RC6 is your's to decide. I have found it very stable.

Kind regards,
Michael
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#8
(06-11-2022, 07:33 AM)mgd Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 03:09 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:47 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.

Attached. Track 7 is the one in question.

Out of curiosity I've downloaded and played it. First thing is I did was change the clock from External to Internal and set BPM to 125. I then played just Track 7 starting from row 00. I listened to each pattern for a few rounds and then moved the cursor to the next pattern and hit START to start it after the next round. I repeated this up to about Pattern 4C or 4E or so. No clicking sound.

I then stopped and moved back to row 00 and started the whole row and repeated the above procedure but always started the whole row instead of Track 7 only. Again no clicking sound.

I only listened to the output of Sample 7 (aka Track 7).

Two things are probably different from your setup:
- I'm on firmware V1.26RC6 (there is a change/bugfix w/r to CV16 envelopes that effectively reduces clicking - see patch notes; not sure this change is in effect for the envelopes of the main module as well)
- I use internal clock instead of some external clock source

You may try to test with internal clock (should be trivial).
Whether or not you try to use firmware V1.26RC6 is your's to decide. I have found it very stable.

Kind regards,
Michael

Actually, the CV16 Envelopes are not related at all to the local envelopes. I don't expect any differences between V1.25A and the V1.26RC6 here.
PLEASE use the search function if something have been asked or discussed before.
Every (unnessesary) forum support means less time to develop! But of course, i am here to help!  Smile
Reply
#9
Okay I've found the answer. 

Michael your suggesting of investigating clock provided the clue! I thought it might be interference from a neighbouring Ansible module but then it transpires I had modulated a VCA planner in a Frap Tools mixer with a clock synched S&H which was causing clicking to the Nerdseq FM! Okay now. Stupid error. I had been massaging envelopes in the Nerdseq to try to track it down for hours.Thank you for downloading and trying to resolve!  


 Heart
(06-11-2022, 07:33 AM)mgd Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 03:09 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:47 PM)XORadmin Wrote:
(06-10-2022, 02:46 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Hi folks,

When using FM output with amplitude envelope, there is a continuous clicking (seems like a ghost activation of some kind) of the envelope that is in synchronisation with the clock progression. The clock is about 125bpm and my multiple is * 2 so the clicking is quite fast and actually a problem when I remove effects. So rather than getting a smooth decay, I'm getting a strange high frequency ratcheting that is impacting the longer FM sounds I am using.

Is this a problem perhaps with my sequence (I have erased all FX) or is it a side-effect that I need to take into account when using the onboard FM sounds?

Can you share the project where this happens. I assume it is just a wrong setting.

Attached. Track 7 is the one in question.

Out of curiosity I've downloaded and played it. First thing is I did was change the clock from External to Internal and set BPM to 125. I then played just Track 7 starting from row 00. I listened to each pattern for a few rounds and then moved the cursor to the next pattern and hit START to start it after the next round. I repeated this up to about Pattern 4C or 4E or so. No clicking sound.

I then stopped and moved back to row 00 and started the whole row and repeated the above procedure but always started the whole row instead of Track 7 only. Again no clicking sound.

I only listened to the output of Sample 7 (aka Track 7).

Two things are probably different from your setup:
- I'm on firmware V1.26RC6 (there is a change/bugfix w/r to CV16 envelopes that effectively reduces clicking - see patch notes; not sure this change is in effect for the envelopes of the main module as well)
- I use internal clock instead of some external clock source

You may try to test with internal clock (should be trivial).
Whether or not you try to use firmware V1.26RC6 is your's to decide. I have found it very stable.

Kind regards,
Michael

Actually, the CV16 Envelopes are not related at all to the local envelopes. I don't expect any differences between V1.25A and the V1.26RC6 here.
Reply
#10
(06-11-2022, 04:43 PM)Zentrumsounds Wrote: Okay I've found the answer. 

Michael your suggesting of investigating clock provided the clue! I thought it might be interference from a neighbouring Ansible module but then it transpires I had modulated a VCA planner in a Frap Tools mixer with a clock synched S&H which was causing clicking to the Nerdseq FM! Okay now. Stupid error. I had been massaging envelopes in the Nerdseq to try to track it down for hours.Thank you for downloading and trying to resolve! 

Excellent!
I'm happy you could solve it.
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