NerdSEQ vs Precision Voltages

[VMG]

Greetings, Nerds!

TL;DR - Two questions:

1. Is there a way to set up NerdSEQ's pattern interface (the UI screen) to display precise [summed] voltage values leaving the CV or MOD output jacks?
   
2. Can I set a specific Track to be Microtonal? I do see SCALE in Track Setup, but still seem to be locked to CV values of C1, C#1, etc.
   

The scenario
I am wanting to use NerdSEQ as a "master controller" in my project; so while Nerdy does fine with Note/Pitch, Gates, Modulations, Triggers... what I also want it to do is have a track (like, Track 8 -> More CV) that handles voltage control output for other systems in my rack for changing configurations, offsetting modulations, etc. 

Example 1: I want NerdSEQ > Track 8 > More CV > Pattern 01 > CV1 > Step 01 to send 0.05v to Sinfonion's CV1 which is configured to select Sequencer Step of a Pattern in Sinfonion.The goal is to have NerdSEQ be the master controller that tells my 5 other Sequencers to change to a specific pattern at a specific time in the NerdSEQ's run... if that makes sense.

Example 2: I want NerdSEQ > Track 8 > More CV > Pattern 01 > CV2 > Step 01 (also) to send 1.25v to my envelope generator's Attack slope to make it slow on Step 01 of the sequence, then on Step 1F send 0.00v to make the Attack slope fast, and so on... (O_c Piqued CV1>Att for those who know what I'm referring to)


What Is Working
Nerdy can definitely do this as I expected, by setting a CV value of, say, C1 for 1 volt (with offset switch set) I can send 1.00v to the external module. When I switch NerdSEQ step CV to C#1, the voltage is 1.083v, D1 is 1.17v, and so on. So a NerdSEQ pattern of C1, C#1, D1, D#1 will move my external module modulations, as expected.


The Problem
This is close, but unfortunately not precise (voltage) enough as some modules (like Sinfinion) have what seems like a very wide input voltage range like 0-10v, so if you have 4 "patterns" in Sinfonion (let's say they are scales of Em, Cmaj7, Dm, B7) barely applying voltage makes Sinfonion pattern selector move vastly. I.e., At 1v, Em step plays. Sending 1.05v from a voltage generator flips Sinfonion step to Cmaj7, then 1.10v changes to Dm, and finally 1.15v changes to B7.

You might see the problem, if I am only able to set "scaled" CV out of NerdSEQ then:

• Em needs 1.00v
  
• Cmaj needs 1.05v (but C#1 is 1.083v)
  
• Dm needs 1.10v (but D1 is 1.17v) so this sequence step is skipped
  
• B needs 1.15v (but D# is 1.25v)
  

Note: If I happen to have a Sequence Pattern with exactly 12 "Steps", the voltages of C1 - B1 work perfectly, of course   Math is hard.

The manual teased that I could use an FX setting to achieve 000 - FFF precise voltages, but I do not see this on normal CV channels; only the AUDIO channels, and in testing it didn't output voltage offsets anyway (like using track 7 AUDIO, setting a CV (C1) then going to FX VOLT 000 100 was not changing voltage on the voltmeter). Regardless of this failed part of my experiment, NerdSEQ does in fact work mostly to do what I am trying to do.


The Question/Request
The two questions after all that hot air:

1. Can I change NerdSEQs pattern (UI) display to show CV = 1.17v instead of C#1?
   
2. How can I convince NerdSEQ CV or MOD output to be "precise voltage" instead of locked to C1, C#1, D1, etc?
   

And a 3rd question I just thought of, is there a display of the FINAL voltage value leaving the CV and/or MOD jacks per step? This would mean if I have C1 as CV Step 1, but I am applying various modulations via FX or envelopes or automators, etc... what is the SUMMED voltage actually leaving NerdSEQ CV Jack #1.


Conclusion
I do have Mordax DATA so that is how I have been using it, but I do not have 22 Mordax DATAs to monitor all the CV outputs from NerdSEQ at once  and yes, this is totally a First World Problem, I understand

Mostly I am asking if I just missed a setting in the UI somewhere that does in fact show (anywhere) what the summed voltage of a configured, modulated track output might be.

Thank you once again for allowing me to be so Nerdy  
Jc

[mgd]

Greetings, Nerds!

TL;DR - Two questions:

1. Is there a way to set up NerdSEQ's pattern interface (the UI screen) to display precise [summed] voltage values leaving the CV or MOD output jacks?
   
2. Can I set a specific Track to be Microtonal? I do see SCALE in Track Setup, but still seem to be locked to CV values of C1, C#1, etc.
   

[snip]

For question 2 the short answer is:
Only somewhat limited microtonality with the NerdSEQ. The resolution of the DACs used is 12bits which does allow for some microtonality. For further reference I suggest to read older threads, e.g. https://xor-electronics.com/forum/showth...ge#pid5895

HTH,
Michael

[VMG]

For question 2 the short answer is:
Only somewhat limited microtonality with the NerdSEQ. The resolution of the DACs used is 12bits which does allow for some microtonality. For further reference I suggest to read older threads, e.g. https://xor-electronics.com/forum/showth...ge#pid5895

Thank you for the response, Michael. While I used the term "microtonal", I am not talking about tuning per se... I'd like to set an output voltage (that I can see the value) that is not quantized to a scale. I can get decent results using Step Xx = C1, C#1, etc, though the Note selectors are not precise enough for some of the modulation voltage requirements of my project. It isn't world-shattering, but the Nerdy CV/MOD output voltages might need an assist from attenuators/attenuverters to achieve the precision I am after. So at scale, impractical (in my setup, at least.)

Thank you again! Explaining the DAC was very helpful to my understanding of the situation.

PS: I may have missed how to utilize this FX > VOLT offset (those 4000 steps) in CV/MOD steps. My understanding was this was limited to AUDIO tracks only. If this is available on CV/MOD FX, that is likely the solution to question 2.

[mgd]

For question 2 the short answer is:
Only somewhat limited microtonality with the NerdSEQ. The resolution of the DACs used is 12bits which does allow for some microtonality. For further reference I suggest to read older threads, e.g. https://xor-electronics.com/forum/showth...ge#pid5895

Thank you for the response, Michael. While I used the term "microtonal", I am not talking about tuning per se... I'd like to set an output voltage (that I can see the value) that is not quantized to a scale. I can get decent results using Step Xx = C1, C#1, etc, though the Note selectors are not precise enough for some of the modulation voltage requirements of my project. It isn't world-shattering, but the Nerdy CV/MOD output voltages might need an assist from attenuators/attenuverters to achieve the precision I am after. So at scale, impractical (in my setup, at least.)

Thank you again! Explaining the DAC was very helpful to my understanding of the situation.

PS: I may have missed how to utilize this FX > VOLT offset (those 4000 steps) in CV/MOD steps. My understanding was this was limited to AUDIO tracks only. If this is available on CV/MOD FX, that is likely the solution to question 2.

Entering notes like C1, C#1 etc. is just a convenient shortcut. Before being sent out those note values are translated into 12-bit values. You can indeed enter arbitrary 12-bit numbers (in hex) ranging from 000 to FFF (actually I think FFF is not available but FFE is) for either CV or MOD. You reach them when you scroll beyond C-A.

A few values in between 000 and FFF can't be selected because they are reserved but I doubt that's a problem for practical purposes. So maybe that's your solution to #2.

Kind regards,
Michael

[VMG]

You can indeed enter arbitrary 12-bit numbers (in hex) ranging from 000 to FFF (actually I think FFF is not available but FFE is) for either CV or MOD. You reach them when you scroll beyond C-A.

Oh man, I completely forgot there were options above C-A! But for the main sequencer CV column, there are only RND options. I could have sworn I remembered the 000 - FFE you mention. The manual doesn't mention 000 - FFE (anymore?) for CV. Just Note or RND, which is fine because!!! The main sequencer MOD output does! 000 - FFF and this does in fact allow me to output precision voltage per step for external modulations. And to my utter joy, the More CV16 has SO many additional options I hadn't even discovered until your last reply...My only excuse for not RTFM is time, and un-diagnosed ADD   I get distracted easy lol


So #2 is definitely solved, thank you so much! I imagine #1 would be a firmware change, unless displaying voltage values (vs Notes or Hex) is another option I've missed somewhere.

@mgd you have saved the project. Thank you!


And I just have to fanboy for a moment here... NerdSEQ, while fairly complex from a newbie perspective, has to be one of, if not the most, powerful Eurorack device I have ever seen. What an utterly amazing core module+firmware, then add all the expanders and yeah... just super impressed. Thank you, XOR!

[XORadmin]

Just to give my input after I was knocked out in bed for a week.

- There were never 0-FFF values in the CV column of a CV/Gate track. Can't be as the column can contain only 1 byte. Its either in the MOD column or you can always change the value exact in the FX column using CV1..6 or MOD 1..6 and you get the fine resolution of 0-FFF.

You could also call these values using a patch and change them by patch. Like Patch 00 could be CMaj, Patch 01 could be Dminor etc.. In the patch you set the exact needed value in the same way as in the FX or MOD column.

In the mapping you can see actually the current value of one of the local outputs.
I will not add a 'voltage' view since it would probably not represent 100% on whats really on the output as it is not really measured.

...and...it is by far the most powerful sequencer in the rack. You barely touched the surface if you are not totally convinced about that yet :-)

[VMG]

Just to give my input after I was knocked out in bed for a week.

Thank you for adding clarity, and I hope you are feeling better. So many people I know are super sick right now.

I will not add a 'voltage' view since it would probably not represent 100% on whats really on the output as it is not really measured.

Understood.

...and...it is by far the most powerful sequencer in the rack. You barely touched the surface if you are not totally convinced about that yet :-)

Oh I am convinced. While I have not experimented with every possible option, I have purchased every expander and spent a lot of time in the manual though it is so much data, I admittedly do not grasp it all (yet!) Those who are not convinced, have not tried NerdSEQ yet.

Thank you again for commenting, and here's to your speedy recovery!

[mgd]

Just to give my input after I was knocked out in bed for a week.

- There were never 0-FFF values in the CV column of a CV/Gate track. Can't be as the column can contain only 1 byte. Its either in the MOD column or you can always change the value exact in the FX column using CV1..6 or MOD 1..6 and you get the fine resolution of 0-FFF.

My bad. I'm mostly working with CV16 tracks and there these values exist.
I wasn't aware these are different on the "normal" tracks

Best wishes,
Michael