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Random value on multiple outs? - Printable Version

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Random value on multiple outs? - williamjturkel - 01-28-2022

I'm new to NerdSeq and really loving it. I have been making a lot of use of the random notes, mod values and triggers. Is it possible to generate a random value and have it simultaneously appear on multiple outs? For example, to send the same randomly generated note to CV1 and CV2? Thank you.


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - mgd - 01-28-2022

Not that I'm aware.

What are you trying to achieve?
(read: I assume just using a mult outside of the sequencer is not a solution Smile )


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - williamjturkel - 01-28-2022

I was wondering if I could program structures in NerdSeq that acted like shift registers. I guess another way of framing the question is "Do I need an Intellijel Steppy or Synthtech E102 in my case?" So storing a random value for use later in the patch.


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - XORadmin - 01-29-2022

As for the first question. You could use automators to route 1 CV signal also to another output.
But of course using the signal twice with a multiple or so would be easier.

The other I don’t understand in this context. Isn’t a shift register for bits
instead of values and are you talking about sample&hold then?
What is the exact goal? They are mostly multiple ways to do stuff with the NerdSEQ but of course not everything is possible.


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - mgd - 01-29-2022

(01-29-2022, 08:35 AM)XORadmin Wrote: The other I don’t understand in this context. Isn’t a shift register for bits
instead of values and are you talking about sample&hold then?

Shift registers as a structure are agnostic of bits or values. They basically are "size limited queues" for whatever is put into them Smile
[I'm sure you are aware of that Wink  ]

While I currently have no idea how I would use them inside the NerdSEQ, the concept sounds interesting...I have a 1-8 value shift register outside of NerdSEQ in the form of my Doepfer A-152.

@williamjturkel: What would be the use case?


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - williamjturkel - 01-29-2022

The most general version of the question is whether I can store a randomly generated value for future use. In the case of a note, outside the sequencer I would use a buff mult and sample & hold. At some future time I would grab a copy of it. If I also have some version of a shift register (Steppy, E102, etc.), I can have the same random note performed by different instruments or voices at subsequent times to create a musical canon.

A different thing I could do with stored voltages is use them to create rule based melodies with a mixer or precision adder. So the current note value is 0.5 times the previous note value plus -0.25 times the t-2 note value plus 0.15 times the t-3 note value etc. Dinko Klobucar has a very nice video showing how to do this on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CoyvGY74PE

But, and here is where I am getting very greedy indeed, how amazing would it be if I could store a randomly generated trigger or ratchet or some other sequencer instruction for future use? In compositional terms it would mean being able to refer back to a gesture that was chosen probabilistically. If the system plays a special ratchet in the third measure, it could do so again, without programming the special ratchet itself - just choose a gesture then repeat it a few times.


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - XORadmin - 01-29-2022

I think that sounds very interresting though I can't think deeper at the moment on how this could be integrated into the workflow and like activated and recalled on demand. Maybe having another track recording the random results (as in fill in the type of effects/ratchets etc that have randomly been generated) and kind of overrule the pattern then. Sounds very complicated to me getting this into the current workflow somehow.


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - mgd - 01-29-2022

I'm not sure that would [easily] fit in the NerdSEQ, but Thomas surely is more qualified to judge that.

I've recently come to look at the Droid eco system for a lot of CV manipulation. Among other things there exists a [queue] circuit which implements a clocked shift register of up to 64 cells. I'm about to receive my Droid master. Among the first things I'll try will be seeing if or more precisely how I can combine it with my NerdSEQ. I'm expecting "the power of the two" ™ will be basically unbeatable Smile


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - williamjturkel - 01-29-2022

(01-29-2022, 11:03 AM)XORadmin Wrote: I think that sounds very interresting though I can't think deeper at the moment on how this could be integrated into the workflow and like activated and recalled on demand. Maybe having another track recording the random results (as in fill in the type of effects/ratchets etc that have randomly been generated) and kind of overrule the pattern then. Sounds very complicated to me getting this into the current workflow somehow.

I don't have any idea of how the tracker works under the hood, so my mental model may be way off. I am also, no doubt, very influenced by the aesthetics which remind me of my Commodore 64 assembly language days Smile 

What I am thinking of is something like a set of 16 registers, let's call them L0 through LF. So right now if I want a random trigger, I use something like F0 to generate it. I assume that at the moment F0 is generated, it has to be mapped to an actual trigger somehow (say trigger 80 which I believe is 40ms). At that moment, write a copy of the trigger which was selected (trigger 80) to L0. So the register L0 always has a copy of the most recently generated R0, and L8 always has a copy of the most recently generated F8. Elsewhere in my patch, anytime I call L0, I get whatever trigger was generated the last time I called F0. The same kind of system (with different sets of registers) could be used to hold the most recently generated random notes or random mod values.

(01-29-2022, 11:04 AM)mgd Wrote: I'm not sure that would [easily] fit in the NerdSEQ, but Thomas surely is more qualified to judge that.

I've recently come to look at the Droid eco system for a lot of CV manipulation. Among other things there exists a [queue] circuit which implements a clocked shift register of up to 64 cells. I'm about to receive my Droid master. Among the first things I'll try will be seeing if or more precisely how I can combine it with my NerdSEQ. I'm expecting "the power of the two" ™ will be basically unbeatable Smile

I am currently using NerdSEQ with a Sinfonion, so have been very tempted to get into Droid, too. Really looking forward to what you discover.


RE: Random value on multiple outs? - mvdirty - 01-29-2022

(01-29-2022, 11:04 AM)mgd Wrote: I've recently come to look at the Droid eco system for a lot of CV manipulation. Among other things there exists a [queue] circuit which implements a clocked shift register of up to 64 cells. I'm about to receive my Droid master. Among the first things I'll try will be seeing if or more precisely how I can combine it with my NerdSEQ. I'm expecting "the power of the two" ™ will be basically unbeatable Smile

The queue circuit works wonderfully. I’m currently running one at approximately 2 kHz as a CV delay. Smile

(01-29-2022, 02:35 PM)williamjturkel Wrote: I am currently using NerdSEQ with a Sinfonion, so have been very tempted to get into Droid, too. Really looking forward to what you discover.

Joy is what you’ll discover. Smile

However: both joy and lots of hand-wringing and head-scratching about how best to mesh them all together to suit your needs and wants. They each bring their uniquenesses, but also their redundancies. If you have felt that any one of them was powerful enough that it left you unsure how to capitalize on all that power, imagine not just multiplying that power but raising it by an exponent. On the downside, that power is accompanied by complexity. It took me quite some months to explore variations before settling on one, and I’m likely to go through that again this year.

(Quickly for context: NerdSEQ x2 -> Sinfonion x2 -> DROID x2, though they’re not quite paired up the way that description might suggest. Plus a third DROID which is both upstream and downstream from the NerdSEQs and Sinfonions, but let’s perhaps save that aspect for another time. Wink )